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Joan Nesbit Mabe
The best lack all convictions, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity~WB Yeats from the Second Coming
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 exclusive question and answer session with Joan Nesbit (conducted aug 2005) Joan Nesbit Mabe is the ironhorse of women's distance running; at the tender age of 43, she continues her quest in life for complete self satisfaction by giving her all in the simple act of running. Nesbit Mabe's career has been marked by her olympic achievements (atlanta 96) as well as coaching achievements, then at U of NC chapel hill tarheels and now her group of women runners/mothers called, see jane runners. neither endeavors have gone unnoticed and inspired many along the way---interestingly enough, she never ran much over 50 miles a week. Joan continues to inspire and provoke thought to many who periodically read her web blog. read on for her accounts of being a coach and olympian, as well as the spiritual side of running and what money has done to the sport of running. read on for the excerpt between JJ and RL.

JJ- Q. north carolina has produced excellent women middle distance runners including yourself, blake phillips (russell), shalane flanagan, as well as alice schmidt. (am i missing anyone?) any insight to this phenomenon?

RL- A.Going back to the beginning of female distance running at UNC, you are missing Holly Murray (now, Stagliano) who was a three-time XC All-American in the 80’s, Karen Godlock, indoor All-American and 3-time ACC champion in XC in the 90’s, and most recently Trish Nervo who was an All-American in XC, Carol Henry, two-time All-American and Erin Donahue, also an All-American (I think, in track – I’ll check and get back to you). I think that’s everyone. As for insight into this phenomenon, I like to think I had something to do with the distance tradition at UNC … but I actually think Chapel Hill sells itself. It is a beautiful place to run and it has a fully funded program, so it is easy to recruit women through scholarships. The only All-American female distance runner at UNC who was NOT on a full-scholarship was Blake Phillips (Russell) who walked on and then earned a partial by her senior year.

JJ- Q. you coached blake. having been a teammate of hers in boston, i noticed her determination, talent, and hard work work has taken her very far, almost all the way to the olympics last year (after leading through 20 miles, she faded to fourth at the marathon olympic trials). did you have to do any coaching with these qualities? tell us of your experience working with blake.

RL- A.Hmmm … did I have to do any coaching? That’s a funny question. Of course I did! But let me be clear in this: Blake was a masterful student. From the moment I started coaching her halfway through her freshman year, Blake listened with focused energy and absorbed everything I had to say and then went on to ask questions and make mature suggestions to tweak her training. She never complained (except to be annoyed when others were complaining!) and was hungry for improvement – for herself and for her team. I went on to coach her after UNC – for one year – mostly to aid her transition to life-after-college “elite” running, helping her secure a contract with New Balance, writing her work-outs, and training with her at Team Wednesday. After one year of this, Blake was fully capable of coaching herself. I think a coach has done her job ONLY if the athlete is not dependent on her at the end of their time together. I think it is pitiful to see grown women runners asking their (usually male) coaches for permission to do anything. “Is it okay if I run a road race, Coach?” “May I double at Nationals, Coach?” “I have to go pee pee, Coach.” Blake was more than ready to leave the nest at the end of her time in Chapel Hill. And look at her fly now!!!

JJ- Q. and you mentioned shalane on runningland...

RL- A.Well, Shalane, what a talent! I once heard someone say, “There are no perfect coaches or perfect athletes; only perfect coach/athlete relationships.” I think Coach Mike Whittlesy and Shalane demonstrate this philosophy. They truly bring out the BEST in each other. I am a huge Shalane fan … although much to my regret, after all these years of living in the same town, I have yet to run with her.

JJ- Q. speaking of runningland, you currently you keep a web blog there, which i enjoy reading from time to time. it provides insight as well as motivation and inspiration to me, just as i'm sure it does for others. i wish that of my own website. what are your motives and methods to your madness behind runningland?

RL- A.www.runningland.com (or, Songs of Experience) is a work in progress. I think I may have finally found my audience after these many months of writing entries that are “all over the place” (as one reader bluntly described). My hope for the blog is to find other folks interested in the three “R’s” … reading, running, and ruminating. Or maybe it’s a way to still feel like an English teacher (the profession I am trained for). I don’t know. Keep reading and let me know what you think is the madness behind it all.

JJ- Q. you placed 3rd at the 1995 world indoor 3000 meter championships, just months after two very emotional events in having your first daughter as well as losing your dad. in the scheme of things, that race must mean a lot to you. you''ve got to be very proud of that. if anything at all, was your medal a tribute to either your dad or daughter?

RL- A.I never really thought in terms of “dedicating” my race to my dad or my daughter or to anyone (except, maybe, God). The people in my life whom I love dwell with me always – whether they are dead or alive – and every effort, racing or otherwise, is a manifestation of those loving relationships. When I finally made the Olympic team after trying four times over 16 years, I was carrying a LOT of people with me around that stadium on my victory lap. I was heavy-laden with love.

JJ- Q. do you reflect at all on the part of your life when you were able to run sub 5 minute pace for 5000 meters, 67 second pace for a mile? if so, what do you think about? if not, please reflect :)

RL- A.First off, I never trained 100 miles per week. It was well-known, back in the day, that I was a low-mileage/high-intensity trainer. I ran interval work-outs 3 X per week and only ran for 70 minutes on my long run. My easy days were easy and my hard days were so hard I would often lose vision temporarily (“running blind,” I called it). I do miss running fast … but its funny how my hard effort at age 43 still FEELS fast. It’s a bit mind-bending to look down at my watch at the first mile marker of a race and see 6:00-something when it sure FELT like a 5:00-something. My effort is true either way.

JJ- Q. whats your racing and training like now? how does it fit in with being a mom, wife, and or job?

RL- A.I train with my seejanerunners (a running group for moms only that I started in 2000) on Monday, Wednesday and Friday mornings after all of our kids are in school. We run hard – but not too hard – and mostly use the time together to solace the toil of motherhood.

JJ- Q. explain the spirited side of running. in particular when you have been able to watch yourself running from above feeling no pain and realizing the simple task of running fast.

RL- A.I think this is a difficulty one to explain without talking about my faith in God. The first time this happened to me was when my little brother’s best friend died in a car crash while I was away at the Falmouth road race. At about mile 3 of the race I had this sensation of being lifted up 2 inches off of the ground and being sort of swept along like a log rushing downstream in a flood. At mile 5, I snapped out of it, but was so far in the lead that I won the race, shocking the field b/c I was a total no-name college runner (I even beat Lorraine Moller!). Later, I found out my brother’s friend (Chris Hertel) had died that morning and to this day I am convinced Chris helped me win that race on his way to heaven. You see, Chris was a fellow cross-country runner from my high school. He was an East Meck. Eagle. And he was a Christian. “They that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles. They shall run and not grow weary; they shall walk and not faint.”

JJ- Q. and in 1984 at Falmouth, you did just that (as explained in your "somewhere around mile three" article). you won the race by 23 seconds beating some what i'd call "pretty decent" runners in new zealand's Lorraine Moller, Mary Cooksey, and Judi St Hilaire. tell us of your Falmouth experience and what you learned from it.

RL- A.See above. The other thing about that 1984 Falmouth win was that it landed me a shoe contract with New Balance that allowed me to run professionally for 15 years.

JJ- Q. the US road racing circuit of the 80s burst on the scene and attracted the best runners in the world by competition alone, but just as well, prize and appearance money. professionalism began to materialize while amateurism/shamatuerism began its downward spiral (though one could argue it began to fall long before that). apart from the US road racing championships of today, the road racing circuit is saturated with small money maker/fund raising/positive awareness races and far from attracting the "better runners" of the world or the US for that matter. track and field is the heavy hitter today attracting runners with big contracts and sponsorships. what do you think about the state of US running now compared to it in the 80s?

RL- A.Another interesting question. I think I was lucky to be in the right place at the right time in terms of running. Graduating in 1980 from high school, I was able to reap the benefits of the newly-enacted Title IX, and then again in 1984 I was in the first wave of runners straight out of college who could accept prize money legally for racing. For most of the 80’s, the road circuit was Americans only, so we were all able to pay rent and eat and support ourselves from one Olympic Trials to the next. I even had my health insurance through USA Track and Field. I do consider those the good old days in our sport, because now you really do have to be THE best (not among the best) to get a livable shoe contract/stipend and the road race prize money very rarely makes it into Americans hands. Other nations have federations that pay for their athletes living expenses, so most of our talented runners never make in past college. It gets old being a running bum, living 5 to a house and eating Raman noodles every day.

JJ- Q. do you believe as i do that $$ and endorsements are a distraction to a runner's full potential as well as developing as a human being? afterall, running is not everything or the only thing in life or is it?

RL- A.Are you speaking of one’s full potential as a runner or as a person? As far as running goes, let me give you an example of how important it is for a runner to have enough money to be the best she/he can be. Massage. Part of my routine for peaking for races was to have this world class therapist in Chapel Hill (Carolyn Levy) work on me three days before my goal race. It cost me $40.00 bucks per session and if I didn’t have the money to pay her for that massage, I would NOT have made the Olympic or world teams. Simple as that. Money was never a distraction for me, but a basic necessity.

JJ- Q. what advice can you offer runners wanting to get the best out of themselves?

RL- A.My advice is to find one friend or one training partner or one coach with whom you can be perfectly honest about your hopes and dreams (and your means of reaching them). Tell him/her everything that is on your mind and in your heart and then get out there and run until you are blind.

RL- A.(expanded on this question, most recently posted on runningland.com 9/16/05) Throughout my running life I have had the amazing good fortune of finding just the right training partner to fit each particular phase of my life. It’s almost as if there were a guiding hand leading me to these people - my comrades, my fellow travelers, my running soul-mates.
I had Marla Daniel (when I was a freshman at UNC) who, in the middle of her long run, would swing by my dorm room on Sunday afternoons - forcing me to run a brisk 5-miler (what I still call “Marla-pace” to this day!) and NOT sleep the afternoon away. From her I learned the importance of “don’t miss.”
As an upperclassmen, the ever-enthusiastic and determined young-un, Holly Murray, taught me how to handle my nerves. “Don’t ruin it by getting nervous” she wisely advised before the NCAA cross-country championships. She was a 3-time All-American in cross and is, today, joyfully coaching at a high school in Philly.
Right after college, I trained with (Hail!)Fredonia’s Bernard “The Dude” Prabucki, probably the toughest, most focused cat ever to cross my path. We would go to the track in the evenings and after my solo-warmup, he would time my intervals; then I’d cool down with him on his warm-up before timing his intervals. He once talked me through how to make a hill flat with my mind. It really works if you concentrate hard enough (you know, like those people who can bend spoons with their mind?). Bernie ran 13:45 for 5k in 1988 on fewer than 70 miles per week … but his hard days would CRUSH a normal man. From Bernie I learned to match my physical intensity with my mental.
Next, I met Austin P. Guiles in a bible study. We have trained together on and off for 20 years … never once running out of things to talk about. He can run fast or long on trail or track or just stand and chat in a parking lot; I always enjoy his company. Once on a run we saw two abandoned bags of fresh groceries lying on the side of a busy road, so I challenged Austin P. to use the groceries as a storyteller’s “prompt.” What a story he told! He wove this tale over hill and dale and back again, lasting the entire run. From Austin, Godfather of my first-born, I learned of the fellowship of runners.
Through Jo White, British amazon (2:02 800m; 4:06 1,500m), I found a coach - Harry Wilson - but I also discovered my ambition. Jo wanted to be FAST. She had a thrilling/dangerous? live-on-the-edge approach to running that made my college career seem like a neighborhood game of kick-the-can. Jo made me see if you want to run with the big dogs, get off the porch.
After the intensity of Jo and Harry, I needed a break. I started coaching myself; I ran alone, read a lot, joined the Catholic church, got a job, went to plays, dated a missionary, read some more … and waited for the next training partner to come along.
Then came Betsy! Betsy Kempter was the “one friend, one training partner, with whom I could be perfectly honest about my hopes and dreams (and my means of reaching them). I told her everything that was on my mind and in my heart and then WE got out there and ran until we were blind.” She was a 2:37 marathoner and I was a 3k-5k track runner, but we met in the middle with equal passion and work ethic to wring every ounce of talent we could out of each other. We sweated, grunted, spit and howled. I can still hear Betsy’s voice out over the top of a crowd of runners in a road race, “GOJOAN!” as if it were one word. I would respond, like an animal in the woods hearing her kind, “GOBETSEEEEEEEEEEy!”
We trained and traveled and raced alongside one another for nearly 7 years. She and her husband, Bryan, taught me to bring my own freshly-ground coffee, with one-cup filters, to races. They had yummy “door food” at all times in their truck with goose-down pillows in the back for napping. Betsy and Bryan were in the audience on the backstretch of my 10k at the 1996 Olympic trials. I had instructed them to cheer, “There’s always Summer Breeze!!” (a dinky road race in Charlotte that we loved to run) if they saw I was in trouble. Luckily, my friend, my partner, only had to howl, “GOJOAN! GOJOAN!”
Those were pure, happy days of running … two she-wolves in the wild. I miss her.

thanks Joanie!















Joan Nesbit Mabe

teams:
Formerly University of North Carolina Chapel Hill,
New Balance,
See Jane Runners

Joan’s Website

USATF Biography

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